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Jon

I was wondering if there was a difference between ascending beyond an iteration and traveling between iterations? Also, do the magic systems of some iterations predispose a person to ascending?

Will Wight

Yeah, Valin didn't ascend, he just wandered out the back door and got lost.

The Emperor would be capable of ascending from Asylum, were it possible to leave Asylum under normal circumstances (it's a prison, so he couldn't leave).

Cradle's requirements for ascension are higher than a world like Asylum's. The Sword Sage COULD have ascended, had he the necessary knowledge and skill. And, of course, the desire to do so.

But if he had gotten too much more powerful, the Abidan would have removed him before he affected the course of the world.

Questioner

When they ascend beyond Cradle do the ruler-focused paths when they don't have access to aura still work?

Will Wight

They do still work! They start interacting with...whatever they previously interacted with but not using aura. Now it transcends that mechanism so if you used fire aura to control flame on cradle then you would be controlling flame directly after you ascend cradle not using any medium you would just be doing it. You would have authority over flames. So that was the original idea it was one of the original ideas behind ruler techniques, in general, was that they were the control option and that they led into this connection with whatever you were working with but I ended up not exploring that very thoroughly just because that would have been a lot of theoretical exploration for what is ultimately an action-adventure series

Lightsyde

This is my favourite blog since 'Ancestors of Cradle'!! Fun reading!!!

How aboutGrom (The Archmage of Menzoberanzan) vs Elder Whisper

Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden 2) vs Yerin?

Goku (ignoring anything past the Main Buu Saga) vs Northstrider?

Is there anyone in the Cradle world (not the universe itself but the planet) that can take one Majin-Buu or Majin-Vegeta?

Evangeline Kitty McDowell (from UQ Holder) vs Luminous Queen Sha Maria?

Touta Konoe (UQ Holder) vs Yerin

Esdeath (Akame ga kill) vs Li Markuth

More to come later =(^-^)=

Will Wight

This thread has gotten so long! It's been awesome, but now I'm having trouble keeping track of it all!

1.) Grom vs. Elder Whisper

I'd like to give it to Whisper because of the flexibility of madra vs. Vancian magic, which relies on prepared and memorized spells and material components. That said, I'd think it would depend on where they fought. Elder Whisper relies on light aura, and Menzoberranzan is in the Underdark. There is some bioluminescence for decoration, but the dark elves primarily rely on infravision to see. No light aura, and Elder Whisper's powers are more limited. Plus, Grom can attack directly, which Elder Whisper essentially can't. Grom gets it.

2.) Ninja Gaiden 2 Ryu Hayabusa vs. Yerin

I have to say I didn't play 2; I played 1, and I played Dead or Alive, but not 2. So if the specifics of what I say are wrong, forgive me.

I'd think Yerin would get it because she's from a magic system with more magic. Everything she does is infused with madra--she's strengthened by madra, throwing blades of madra, using the power of an opponent's blades against them.

Ryu has powers of his own, as well as a great deal of training, but for the most part he's swinging regular steel weapons. Yerin beats him.

3.) SS3 Goku vs. Northstrider

This is roughly the level of power I'm looking at for Northstrider. When he powers up, the world shakes for miles around. That sort of thing.

(Not blowing up planets, but they could do that in the Saiyan Saga, so I'm just kind of pretending DBZ characters can't do that.)

I'd think Goku would win, because Northstrider can't teleport or use ki blasts (unless between now and my introduction of the character I decide to give him that ability). In a straight punch-out, they'd be comparable.

4.) Majin Buu or Majin Vegeta

Yes.

5.) Evangeline vs. Sha Miara

UQ Holder Evangeline rather than Negima Evangeline, huh? Not that in her particular case it matters much, that's just interesting.

Evangeline has to win because she's immortal and Sha Miara isn't. In terms of magical firepower, I'd give it to Sha Miara, but I don't know that Evangeline has ever gone 100% all-out. Still a similar level.

6.) Touta Konoe vs. Yerin

Same thing: Touta wins because he can't be killed. So he basically can't lose a death match.

I'm also not fully clear on what his powers are, but the White Light of Mars can presumably disperse Yerin's Striker and Ruler techniques (though not her Enforcer techniques, which I'd guess would work more similar to chi in the Negima universe). Even if you say that dying once disqualifies him, Touta probably wins.

7.) Esdeath vs. Li Markuth

Esdeath can freeze *time itself,* which is pretty OP, but I think Li Markuth still wins. He's superhuman and has access to a broader variety of techniques.

Questioner

If humans are born with pure cores, what are sacred beasts born with?

Will Wight

If you're born a sacred beast, you are born with whatever madra your species has. You just have that naturally. So you're always born with aspected madra. So it depends on what you are. If you're not born a sacred beast, if you're just born a regular animal, you absorb ambient aura over time and slowly develop aspected madra. But since of course there is no pure aura, you can never develop pure madra.

Will Wight

Darandiel, the Ghost

Just as the other Judges supervise the life and health of a world, someone must oversee the process of universal death and rebirth. The Ghosts watch over the broken fragments of worlds, guiding the development of new Iterations and protecting them from malign influence during the vulnerable cycle of destruction and creation.

As Hounds tap into the power of Fate and Titans into the power of protection, Ghosts manipulate the force that binds existence to the Way: conscious will. This is an esoteric power that, depending on the situation, can be either overwhelmingly powerful or totally useless.

Darandiel is rarely seen in Sanctum, the headquarters of the Abidan. She and her Ghosts spend most of their time beyond the Iterations, shepherding the birth of new worlds and defending old ones from the chaos of the void.

Tievel

This would be a longer one, but any chance we could (someday) get a primer on how and why "internal" vital aura aspects operate differently than others? Such as blood and dream aura, which non-blood/dream madra shouldn't be able to affect, but the spirit somehow defends against Ruler techniques of them since Blood artists can't go around giving Lords heart attacks willy nilly.

Will Wight

Maybe someday?

Daldric

So if black flame is based on fire and destruction madra then is an iron body made out of certain aspects as well? Are you combining two things to make an iron body or is it all random?

Will Wight

An Iron body is essentially how the spirit changes the body hosting it. So its changes are made by certain aspects of madra and aura, not made of them.

Then again, there are exceptions. Some Iron bodies make people exceptionally able to manipulate one type of aura or madra and crap at anything else.

Adarsh

So if an iteration is tied to the way by human consciousness, could an iteration be severed from the way if a significant amount of their population was "hidden" from detection the same way Ozriel is currently hiding? Because if the Way can't sense them, they are effectively "Dead" right?

Also, what happens if someone in the spider division eventually becomes more suitable to being the head Spider than the current Spider*? Is there a peaceful transfer of power? A secret assassination? Lots of paperwork? A duel to the death? 

*Assuming the current Spider wants to keep his job.

Will Wight

1.) Yes it could, and that's an insightful thought.

2.) The other Judges vote to determine whether a current Judge needs replaced, either because there's someone more suitable or the current person isn't fulfilling their role to the satisfaction of the Court.

If that person wants to resist, they have to decide whether they want to fight six other Judges. Plus, the Court as a whole has control over all the mantles, so if one person tries to rebel, they won't be able to amplify their power. They'll be fighting alone against a bunch of Judges all mantled up.

An armed rebellion has never happened among Judges for several reasons. For one thing, Makiel can see it all coming and prepare accordingly. For another, high-ranking Abidan tend to be ordered, rule-abiding people. Even the Fox, who's considered something of a rebel by Abidan standards, doesn't violate the spirit of the law.

Kidpen

What would be the best strategy if a foundation sacred artist was suddenly dropped into the world of Subnautica?

Will Wight

If a foundation artist was dropped in the world of Subnautica and they did not have access to the technology that Riley here, my survivor, has access to, they would be in real trouble because while they have some superhuman powers, not nearly enough to keep up with the world of Subnautica. So, therefore, if there's aura here that they can cultivate then fantastic, they are in good shape. The better spend their days hunting for fish and getting water and now I don't know how you would do that without a fabricator but they'd find a way to get some water and food and then trying to make it to Copper ASAP. If it doesn't have aura and they don't have this technology, then they are going to be hunting fish and just hoping that they don't instantly die.

Daniel

If the fate of every iteration is to die this consigning the willverse to eventual destruction if the Abidan fail in their defense then why do they put so much emphasis on obeying fate?

Will Wight

Because the fate of each Iteration isn't to die, it's to die and be reborn. They focus on obeying and maintaining Fate to ensure a safe and healthy eventual rebirth.

Daniel

Oh ok so instead of trying to subvert fate so that everywhere can live forever, and by doing so actually accelerate their demise, they decided to supervise and streamline the natural process to ensure existence continues smoothly.

Will

That's the idea, yeah.

They're gardeners. They're trying to make sure the environment is optimal for the plants they chose.

Questioner

Would a fire path be one of the fastest way to level up? All you would have to do is stand next to a barn-fire and absorb the ambient fire manna it would give off, then refine it. On that note how different would the manna type be, between different types of fire. A hearth-fire warming a family home in the winter, with all the "happy" connotation that come with it, compared to like an arson attack destroying someone's home and possession and just everything that they have worked for. Both are fire but you get what I mean.

Will Wight

A fire Path would not be the fastest way to advance, because the aura would be slightly rarer and harder to collect compared to, say, earth or air. But it's still very fast, as are all the Paths that draw from aura easily found in nature.

There WOULD be significant differences between those two Paths! Fire from different Paths could take on different qualities depending on how it's used an where it comes from; you could have a gentle flame that spreads slowly and provides lots of even warmth, versus a violent flames that consumes rapidly and burns out quickly.

Questioner

Are Cradle characters stronger than any other Iteration?

Will Wight

No, but they have the best average growth rate. It's extremely rare for someone of another Iteration to ascend past their starting power scale, but with Cradle it happens reliably 2-3 times per generation.

Questioner

If Lindon had consumed part of Eithan would the Dreadgod arm have broken?

Will Wight

That was honestly one of the scenes I really liked because that was a moment I didn't think of until I was writing it. Like I wanted Lindon to have one goodbye gesture and I realized oh man he can shake his hand and tried to drain power from him. But it doesn't work because it's blocked by Ozriel's armor. So that does not work. That is not a way that Eithan sneakily left Lindon power. I've seen people speculating that maybe he did get something and that Eithan allowed it. No, the armor blocked it and he couldn't allow Lindon that power now without violating the Eledari Pact which he is now bound by once again. The only reason he was out of it is the same reason why, well this is an interesting thing, let me go into this for a second while I'm sitting here at the bottom of the ocean.

My initial mechanism, my initial plan, for having Eithan hide was that I was going to have Suriel do research into how Abidan retire and what retired Abidan do, how that mechanism works because that's clearly a mechanism by which he could have been hiding, right? When Judges retire, or when powerful Abidan are allowed to retire they can get out of Eledari Pact by reintroducing themselves into the Iteration in which they were born or certain other Iterations that will allow them like Sanctum, you can just live there if you want. So they give up their extra powers that are beyond the world but are still very powerful and knowledgeable and have a lot of Authority and so on and so forth. So they don't give up their full power, they are still extremely powerful. Usually what they do is they go into hiding and just kind of live like normal people.

But they know Ozriel couldn't have done that on Cradle because he would be immediately found out because their Presence would have found him, they would have scanned him, and found out who he was. However, the Presences have a sort of a shared memory and a way that they check facts against the Way. Like against pure order and truth. And that is fundamentally incorruptible except for the fact that Ozriel found a way to do it. So the idea was that he broke into the records, the metaphysical record storage system, and changed his origin so nobody recognizes it and just retires normally to Cradle.

So one of the reasons she's sure he can't be on Cradle in book one is that he can't be because we would see him and notice him and, as soon as I saw, would recognize him. Except that he just basically persuaded reality that he was a different person than he was. So I really wanted to do that because it would have first of all allowed for her to explore some interesting mechanisms of the system and the way it works. But that was a casualty of me not knowing how many books were going to be in the series. So I didn't know how to pace out the Abidan story line correctly because I didn't know how many parcels I was going to be allowed. And when I finally got there I was like okay so do I need, do I want Suriel doing research into background information on the world and the metaphysics of this system that we're not even really involved in yet or do I want her doing cool things like fighting? And, I eventually decided that it was more fun to have her intervene in worlds and fight Vroshir and all that kind of stuff than do researching behind the scenes.

I liked that better because it wasn't a single artifact that a bunch of transcendent craftsmen created together. It was a scheme that Ozriel cooked up and one that only he could have executed because the reason why other people can't do that is because you would have to be skilled in almost every other discipline and he is. So he can do things other people can't do. So, anyway, that would have been fun.

Joe

This isn't necessarily related to this particular post, but thinking of the immortal nature of the Abidan Court got me thinking about this. Are there any beings in any iterations that have not ascended and yet are inherently immortal (at least apart from being killed)? 

The Nye are partially what made me think of this, as the Eldest Nye has evidently been around since before his world was splintered and has been living in that splinter for some time. So even if the Nye aren't immortal, are there any naturally immortal beings?

Will Wight

Yes, there are immortals in the Iterations.

But the Eldest Nye hasn't been around since before his world was splintered. He's telling tales that have been passed down for generations.

Skeletickles

Are Icons present on all Iterations, or are they specific to Cradle?

Will Wight

They are present in all Iterations, but they can have different names or expressions in other worlds. Also, some of them have more influence on some worlds than others.

Skeletickles

Do the Abidan or other ascended beings use them?

Will Wight

Yeah, they use authority, but Icons just kind of define what area you have authority over

Skeletickles

Huh. I thought they got authority from other sources. The "authority of Suriel" sounds like it comes from Suriel herself or her mantle.

Will Wight

It does.

Icons are just reflections of authority you’ve earned. There is no greater authority of restoration and healing than Suriel.

Diego

1.) Are humans from each iteration biologically diffrent? (I asked this in the previous post)2.)Easy to deduce Amalgam is Simons World but i find it weird no myths of people ascending exist in this world and as well as in Asylum. (The emperor was the closest we got to an immortal there)

Will Wight

1.) They may be biologically different in some ways, but essentially no. Not in the Iterations we've seen, anyway.

2.) That's why Cradle is unique. The magic systems of the others don't naturally lead to someone ascending beyond the world.Especially not in Asylum. The Emperor had even a slight knowledge of the Abidan because he was such an exception to the rule; Asylum was specifically designed to be extraordinarily difficult to leave.

Terrible

How does the Horseman replicate energy systems from worlds he visits? If that is too spoiler-y, then how do ice madra techniques differ from water madra techniques?

Will Wight

That is too spoiler-y, but I can answer your ice/water question. Ice aura and water aura are different powers. Why? Good question, RAFO.

Archlord

Will Wight

bamfious

Are you able to confirm if Cradle was a naturally formed iteration? Or was someone "playing Adriel" and made Cradle?

Will Wight

Cradle is a naturally formed Iteration.

Questioner

Reddit: Will has actually said that he didn’t consider the “evolution” of sacred arts when creating the system

Will Wight

Hold on there, Skippy. I don’t remember saying that, but I probably did. I trust your memory more than mine, and also it’s true that I didn’t consider the evolution of sacred arts. However, not considering the evolution of the system means I didn’t decide who first practiced sacred arts, or where that term comes from, how the different stages became measured and codified, etc. I do know where the first Remnant comes from for a Path. Sacred beasts leave Remnants, and sacred beasts advance naturally over time. So you might absorb one of these wild Remnants that’s compatible with your own madra. Also, natural spirits (like Little Blue) are sometimes born from convergences of aura, and they can be bonded. They’re basically Remnants that no one died to leave behind. Third, people sometimes capture Remnants and feed them different types of madra or keep them in certain environments of aura until they adapt. This is intended to create a certain kind of Goldsign until your sect or clan or whatever grows large enough that you have a reasonable supply of Remnants from your specific Path.