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Questioner

Can you explain the difference between Herald and a Sage?

Will Wight

Yes

Questioner

What qualities did Yerin have that made the Sword Sage take her on as a disciple?

Will Wight

This gets into spoiler territory, because I will be answering that question thoroughly in the series, but suffice it to say that she was born strong. And she demonstrated that at an early age.

Greg

Do Sages ever become Heralds?

Will Wight

Yes, however... [meta answer warning] ...I might change my mind on that.

Questioner

Why did Li Markuth make it out of Cradle?

Will Wight

He did not make it to the top of the power scale and then ascend, but he did make it out.

So there must be other ways out of Cradle...

Hjorth

I really wanted to ask you, how did the Sword Sage know about the Sacred valley?

Will Wight

Uhhhhh man that's a spoiler. That-that's a spoiler.

Questioner

The Emperor is way more powerful than a lot of people on the blog give him credit for!

How about him vs. Northstrider or any of those guys Suriel showed Lindon at the beginning of Unsouled. Actually I believe The Emperor would kick any of their butts one on one. How about The Emperor vs. the three strongest people on the planet Cradle? Besides Suriel because she is not a resident of Cradle.

Basically is anyone on Cradle on par with The Elders, or could The Emperor handily destroy anyone on Cradle?

Will Wight

Their powers work differently, but no, the Emperor would not be one of the strongest people on Cradle. The reason the Abidan value Cradle is because it nurtures and produces extremely powerful individuals.

A fight against Yerin's master would be pretty even. Depends on the circumstances at that point, like how well-armed the Emperor is and how seriously the Sword Sage takes the fight from the very beginning.

Okazaki

i missed the conversation, but yes, sages can advance.

Questioner

Can Lindon create void keys now that he can sense The Way?

Will Wight

That is something that he can learn to do. Not all Sages can do that, but he can. So that is something that he can learn to do.

Now can he do that yet? No, he doesn't know how. But that is something that is viable with his power set. Void Icon, void keys - makes sense, right?

Chimeric

You mentioned earlier that all your books are connected in the same universe. In Skysworn, the Sage of a Thousand Eyes was mentioned. Is that Sage anyway connected to the Elder Empire Overseer, who also has the nickname Lord of a Thousand Eyes.

Will Wight

That's actually a really good question, but she is not related to him at all, Ach Magut i think it the one.

Chimeric

Is the path related?

Will Wight

No its more of a colloquial nickname, in both cases. So the sage of thousand eyes is not on the path of a thousand eyes, i don't think, i'll have to look that up, maybe they are. Most of the sage of "whatever whatever", so sages have two names, so there's the "sword sage" and "the sage of the endless sword". so there's two names for sages, the "whatever" sage, and the sage of "whatever", so usually the sage of "whatever whatever" is their path, but in the case of the Sage of a Thousand Eyes, unless i changed this, so take all this with a grain of salt, shes not actually on the path of a thousand eyes, shes a member of the Arelius family. Therefore her ability is to see everything, like she can see all over the place, so therefore her most defining feature is her command over her bloodline ability. Whereas Ach Magut, the Lord of a thousand eyes, just kind of has eyes everywhere, and he has like a thousand eyes. I know there's a lot of overlap there and i'm sorry about that, i probably should have called him like lord of a million eyes or something cos he has a million eyes, i dunno. I just though a thousand eyes sounded better, really is kinda the crux there. But I apologise, and I hate telling people that the connections don't exist, but I am sorry, that's just an overlap in the naming conventions.

IrishNerdDnD

The gap between these stages of advancement is HUGE! people are trying to scale Lindon and the gang and it seems people think sage/Herald are closer to monarchs than they actually are.

The 8 man empire are the equivalent of one monarch. That's not because any 8 sacred artists at the level of sage/Herald (S/H) are the equivalent of a monarch, they need the help of special magic space armor to combine their significance to reach that level. This fact alone means that without the magic space armor, that I would take over 8 S/H to rival one monarch. The way the story talks about the 8 man empire I would guess it would take many more that 8 S/H to rival a monarch.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to estimate exactly how few S/H it would take to match a monarch.

That being said, the fact that Lindon and Yerin could push back against Malice, with the help of Mercy, is huge. To say Lindon is just a Sage with the raw power of a Herald is a joke. Our boy could spank any Herald or sage level sacred artist low dif.

Will Wight

My view of Yerin in this fight is that she’s roughly the equivalent of a normal Herald. She has some unique advantages, but so do many Heralds.

Fury, for instance, could have beaten her.

But she’s at the level of being able to participate in this fight while Lindon puts the lion’s share (tiger’s share?) of the pressure on.

That’s my general thought process, anyway.

Will Wight

Let me take a few minutes to address the 8ME.

A group of 4 Sages and 4 Heralds all fighting a Monarch together could win. And probably would, all other factors being equal.

The disadvantage is that none of them could 1v1 the Monarch, so they’re prone to getting picked off and defeated separately. Are you going to stand there and fight eight guys? No, you run and pick your moment later.

The advantage of the 8ME is that they don’t need to be together to combine powers. And that they can fuse their power to perform Monarch-level feats, which Sages and Heralds can’t normally do.

How does a Monarch beat a Sage? Engage them physically or in a straight-up power fight. How do they beat a Herald? Keep throwing workings at them they can’t match and make them waste willpower and concentration shutting them down.

An 8ME member can draw on the power of the others to remove those weaknesses at will.

How would you defeat the 8ME? Force them to spread out. They have a finite pool of power to draw on, so if three of them (for instance) need to draw on Monarch-level power at once, what does that leave for the rest?

Problem is, no faction has two Monarchs. So let’s say Reigan Shen wanted to take them down. He engages Larian in combat, and he assigns or hires a Sage or Herald for each of the other seven.

How does that actually play out?

They don’t pump Larian up to Monarch-level. She flees and runs and hides and does anything she can to survive with only her own power, and they pump whoever has the weakest opponent.

Suddenly, the person facing down a single Sage has Monarch-level power. The enemy is crushed. Then they move on to the next-weakest enemy, and so on.

Larian might die. Maybe she couldn’t hang on either.

But it’s still WAY faster and easier for the 8ME to pass power between each other than it is for Shen to travel through the Way to face the other members. So, in all likelihood, they become the Six-Man Army but all their non-Monarch opponents are dead.

Then they replace the lost two members and now they’re gunning for Shen.

And that’s the story of why the 8ME still exists.

kcudlow

If it's easier to become a Herald than a sage, and a Herald is more powerful, why would anyone choose to become a sage besides the cool name?

Will Wight

The Abidan like Sages better.

Also, Sages have certain advantages that Heralds don't have. And generally, Sages are people who are focused on exploring the depth of their Path rather than advancing for the sake of power.

irishNerdDnD

The gap between these stages of advancement is HUGE! people are trying to scale Lindon and the gang and it seems people think sage/Herald are closer to monarchs than they actually are.

The 8 man empire are the equivalent of one monarch. That's not because any 8 sacred artists at the level of sage/Herald (S/H) are the equivalent of a monarch, they need the help of special magic space armor to combine their significance to reach that level. This fact alone means that without the magic space armor, that I would take over 8 S/H to rival one monarch. The way the story talks about the 8 man empire I would guess it would take many more that 8 S/H to rival a monarch.

Will Wight

Let me take a few minutes to address the 8ME.

A group of 4 Sages and 4 Heralds all fighting a Monarch together could win. And probably would, all other factors being equal.

The disadvantage is that none of them could 1v1 the Monarch, so they’re prone to getting picked off and defeated separately. Are you going to stand there and fight eight guys? No, you run and pick your moment later.

The advantage of the 8ME is that they don’t need to be together to combine powers. And that they can fuse their power to perform Monarch-level feats, which Sages and Heralds can’t normally do.

How does a Monarch beat a Sage? Engage them physically or in a straight-up power fight. How do they beat a Herald? Keep throwing workings at them they can’t match and make them waste willpower and concentration shutting them down.

An 8ME member can draw on the power of the others to remove those weaknesses at will.

How would you defeat the 8ME? Force them to spread out. They have a finite pool of power to draw on, so if three of them (for instance) need to draw on Monarch-level power at once, what does that leave for the rest?

Problem is, no faction has two Monarchs. So let’s say Reigan Shen wanted to take them down. He engages Larian in combat, and he assigns or hires a Sage or Herald for each of the other seven.

How does that actually play out?

They don’t pump Larian up to Monarch-level. She flees and runs and hides and does anything she can to survive with only her own power, and they pump whoever has the weakest opponent.

Suddenly, the person facing down a single Sage has Monarch-level power. The enemy is crushed. Then they move on to the next-weakest enemy, and so on.

Larian might die. Maybe she couldn’t hang on either.

But it’s still WAY faster and easier for the 8ME to pass power between each other than it is for Shen to travel through the Way to face the other members. So, in all likelihood, they become the Six-Man Army but all their non-Monarch opponents are dead.

Then they replace the lost two members and now they’re gunning for Shen.

And that’s the story of why the 8ME still exists.

AccomplishedCoffee

If someone managed to do whatever it is that makes a Sage a Sage before Archlord, would they still be considered a Sage or not til they reach Archlord as well? Or is it literally impossible before Archlord for some reason?

Will Wight

I'm not sure what the terminology would be for that, but with 90% confidence I'd say they would just be a Sage.

It doesn't happen before Archlord because every evolution in soulfire makes you better able to sense the magic system that Sages can control.

Questioner

How did the Sage of the Endless Sword become a Sage?

Will Wight

As an Archlord, the Sage of the Endless Sword was blessed enough to cross swords with a sword-wielding Monarch without getting obliterated. Swearing not to waste that opportunity, he tracked down an ancient Remnant called Memory, on the Path of a Thousand Dreams. She made sure his recollection of the fight would stay fresh, so he could experience the feeling of the Monarch's power every day as though for the first time. He began traveling from sword Path to sword Path, sensing their techniques and trying to develop a power closer to that of the Monarch's. As an experienced refiner, he also tracked down natural treasures attuned to the sword: spirit fruits, sacred herbs, and the parts of sacred beasts that gathered sword aura. ...this is where the story gets spoiler-y, but long story short, this quest led to him distinguishing himself as a Sage. Sorry for the anticlimax, but I have to dance around the details of how one becomes a Sage. Still, I hope that's enough.

jacktrowell

I still think that it was a narrative error to not have any character in the story mention the question earlier than that.

Not revealing the reason, just somebody asking the obvious question "how did a bunch of jades manage to kill a sage ?" (plus the similar question about Yerin managing to handle a Sage Remnant while only at Jade level at the time), even if followed immediatly by something like "I suppose they used some kind of rare poison ?"

Anyway the matter is now settled until we get more information.

That said, I really enjoyed the book and it's only one small flaw in a very good serie, please continue the good work, we are legions awaiting for Wintersteel now. ;)

Will Wight

Yeah, one of my big regrets was not having Yerin say something about it in Soulsmith.

Ragnrok

I actually thought that was intentional, and I liked it.

Yerin is a very focused and direct character. If Lindon had a larger knowledge base at that point then it would be in character for him to spend months wondering how the heck a bunch of Jades killed a Sage, but Yerin isn't one to waste her time questioning reality. A bunch of Jades poisoned and then killed the Sword Sage, so it must be possible, because it happened, so why waste time dwelling on it?

Will Wight

That was my thinking at the time; I thought it was consistent with her character not to question it, because they did it and it happened and now the question is what to do next.

I wish I had made her question it just because it would have saved me headache since then.

Questioner

What is a piece of cut content that you fully fleshed out, but never found a good spot to put in the books? Besides jade cycling techniques, that is.

Will Wight

Well, I shared a lot of that before, I guess, Bloodline I think.  I shared some of the things I had thought about there.  There's a lot of paths that I made.  I think one thing - this is funny, but I made a full character sheet for Charity, Akura Charity.  So the owls thing, that's a real technique.  I know all the techniques in The Book of the Silver Heart.  I have a character sheet for Pride too somewhere, but, you know.  It's Pride.  Charity though, I have names for her weapons and artifacts.  I have some elaborate stuff, and we just never got into it.  Maybe I'll shove it into the nest book.  She still has a role in the series of course.  So maybe I'll elaborate on that.  So that's one thing.  I have character sheets for quite a number of people, but Charity is one that I was looking through my notes the other day, and I was like, huh.  I fleshed out her path.  And I never really did a whole lot with it.  

So, anything else... Another piece of cut content...  Oh, there is a lot of setting stuff.  A lot of Serpent's Grave.  Even in Elder Empire.  I actually built the Gray Island, for the Consultant Headquarters in Elder Empire, I built that in Minecraft so I would have a map for it.  I just went into creator mode in Minecraft and built the whole thing.  Built the docks, built the different traps, and the underground chamber, and all that stuff.  I ended up losing that map because I transitioned computers and didn't back it up.  So I was really salty about that.  So that's another thing; there's a few setting things that I fleshed out then didn't get to include, because of course I, instead f lingering on settings, blow past them at the speed of light.  So there's stuff with Blackflame City and stuff with Serpent's Grave that I came up with, then just didn't use.  I do that a lot with characters and settings; come up with details for them that are probably never going to come up.  There's a few sages that I think are super cool that are probably never going to come up.  Just a few paths they get to use that are (aren't?) cool.  There's also some that I initially had that overlap with another character or they just aren't that important.  So there was one guy that was on a sun path, and he was conjuring... It's kind of like Heaven's Glory but taken to the utmost extreme, because he's a sage.  So yeah, a few things like that.  

One of the first things I did in Blackflame actually, was I went through and defined all the monarchs, and the most prominent heralds and sages and stuff, because I wanted to know who the most powerful figures in the world are.  I did this in Elder Empire too; I went and elaborated on the regents and guild heads in one document in order to define the setting and the magic system.  That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and I recommend anyone do it if you are trying to write a progression fantasy sort of setting where people scale in power, is if you define the upper end of the system really quick, even to yourself, it can help you answer questions you didn't even know you had.  Somebody asked me earlier, how do you get past being stuck, and the answer I am sorry to say, is really just write nonsense.  Write the best scene you can think of.  Well, I don't know what to write.  To bad, keep writing.  Write as though someone is holding a gun to your head so words keep coming out of your fingers.  So that's how you do it.  Another answer that I'll elaborate on is you want to know more about your story.  One of the ways to do that is to answer questions to yourself.  Defining powerful people in your magic system is another way to answer questions you didn't even know you had.

So, one of the first things I did for Elder Empire, which I didn't do this for Cradle, mainly because I just went through and I had a file that's literally called powerful people of Cradle, and I just went through and outlined all the monarchs and their relationships to one another, and their factions, and what continent their on, their most powerful and loyal sages and heralds, all that kind of thing.  So, I went through and did all that around Blackflame, when I was really trying to define the setting, and of course I had done a little bit of that already, because 3 of the monarchs show up in Unsouled, so clearly I had done some of that already, but I finished the documentation there.  And in Elder Empire, I wrote a scene with the Emperor and the first generation Champions, uniting the world.  And of course at least of those first generation Champions became a regent.  And I didn't know anything about Estyr Six at the time; I just thought about a woman with long hair, and a black coat, and three lizard skulls that she was levitating around her with her powers that I thought was really cool, and because of that image, I fleshed her out into one of the major people in the setting.  And that ended up helping me fill in history of the setting that I didn't know I needed, and the dominoes sort of fell, and that inspired me and gave me some gaps to fill in later.

Cradle Enjoyer

What Sage would have trained Lindon had he become an Uncrowned?

Will Wight

I had an answer to this, I had charted all of this out, uh, shoot, I don't remember the, ... I don't remember. Dang it, that's a good question. Uh, I had a real answer to this, and I'm trying to, mmm I'll have to come back to that. I'll have to see if I can, well there's a, I'm just going to speculate on what I may have been thinking, I really did chart this out, I had, because, so I had actually made tournament brackets for the Uncrowned, and I had charted it out, based on who would win. Right? Like who would get the people, and either one was a possibility so the sage's had discussed that, and I really had, had this in an Excel spreadsheet, no joke, uh, but, yeah, so there's a, there is a sage that hasn't shown up much, that I think he has a cameo in Dreadgod actually?; but it's a fire, a fire sage, so he probably would have done it. Yeah, probably. That's my guess, on my, I'm speculating on my past intentions. (Takes sip)

Questioner

So, in Cradle, what are Sages exactly?

Will Wight

Sages are Archlords who have achieved [something special] that sets them apart from their peers. There are levels above Archlord, but Sages are actually more rare than the stage immediately over Archlord. It's easier to advance than to distinguish yourself and become a Sage.

Questioner

When are you functionally immortal?

Will Wight

I may change this, as with anything that hasn't happened in the books yet, so take it with a grain of salt.But Sages almost don't age, and Heralds and Monarchs do not.Most Heralds and Monarchs, I should say.

Questioner

Will Wight

No.

Questioner

I'm going to assume that means it only applies to Sages

Will Wight

Yes.

Lightsyde

This is my favourite blog since 'Ancestors of Cradle'!! Fun reading!!!

How aboutGrom (The Archmage of Menzoberanzan) vs Elder Whisper

Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden 2) vs Yerin?

Goku (ignoring anything past the Main Buu Saga) vs Northstrider?

Is there anyone in the Cradle world (not the universe itself but the planet) that can take one Majin-Buu or Majin-Vegeta?

Evangeline Kitty McDowell (from UQ Holder) vs Luminous Queen Sha Maria?

Touta Konoe (UQ Holder) vs Yerin

Esdeath (Akame ga kill) vs Li Markuth

More to come later =(^-^)=

Will Wight

This thread has gotten so long! It's been awesome, but now I'm having trouble keeping track of it all!

1.) Grom vs. Elder Whisper

I'd like to give it to Whisper because of the flexibility of madra vs. Vancian magic, which relies on prepared and memorized spells and material components. That said, I'd think it would depend on where they fought. Elder Whisper relies on light aura, and Menzoberranzan is in the Underdark. There is some bioluminescence for decoration, but the dark elves primarily rely on infravision to see. No light aura, and Elder Whisper's powers are more limited. Plus, Grom can attack directly, which Elder Whisper essentially can't. Grom gets it.

2.) Ninja Gaiden 2 Ryu Hayabusa vs. Yerin

I have to say I didn't play 2; I played 1, and I played Dead or Alive, but not 2. So if the specifics of what I say are wrong, forgive me.

I'd think Yerin would get it because she's from a magic system with more magic. Everything she does is infused with madra--she's strengthened by madra, throwing blades of madra, using the power of an opponent's blades against them.

Ryu has powers of his own, as well as a great deal of training, but for the most part he's swinging regular steel weapons. Yerin beats him.

3.) SS3 Goku vs. Northstrider

This is roughly the level of power I'm looking at for Northstrider. When he powers up, the world shakes for miles around. That sort of thing.

(Not blowing up planets, but they could do that in the Saiyan Saga, so I'm just kind of pretending DBZ characters can't do that.)

I'd think Goku would win, because Northstrider can't teleport or use ki blasts (unless between now and my introduction of the character I decide to give him that ability). In a straight punch-out, they'd be comparable.

4.) Majin Buu or Majin Vegeta

Yes.

5.) Evangeline vs. Sha Miara

UQ Holder Evangeline rather than Negima Evangeline, huh? Not that in her particular case it matters much, that's just interesting.

Evangeline has to win because she's immortal and Sha Miara isn't. In terms of magical firepower, I'd give it to Sha Miara, but I don't know that Evangeline has ever gone 100% all-out. Still a similar level.

6.) Touta Konoe vs. Yerin

Same thing: Touta wins because he can't be killed. So he basically can't lose a death match.

I'm also not fully clear on what his powers are, but the White Light of Mars can presumably disperse Yerin's Striker and Ruler techniques (though not her Enforcer techniques, which I'd guess would work more similar to chi in the Negima universe). Even if you say that dying once disqualifies him, Touta probably wins.

7.) Esdeath vs. Li Markuth

Esdeath can freeze *time itself,* which is pretty OP, but I think Li Markuth still wins. He's superhuman and has access to a broader variety of techniques.